<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Is the Torah for Gentiles?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/faqs/torah-for-gentiles/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/faqs/torah-for-gentiles/</link>
	<description>A Global Association of Orthodox Jewish Believers in Messiah Yeshua</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 03:30:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: The Jerusalem Council</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/faqs/torah-for-gentiles/#comment-656</link>
		<dc:creator>The Jerusalem Council</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 06:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=1122#comment-656</guid>
		<description>If &quot;Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of G-d [is what matters]&quot; (and this is true) and G-d himself commands circumcision (thus finding itself in the category of &quot;the commandments of G-d&quot; and thus &quot;what matters&quot; - then what is the &quot;circumcision&quot; that Paul is talking about that isn&#039;t of &quot;the commandments of G-d&quot;? Do you know? Paul can&#039;t be made to contradict the scriptures that came before him, or else he would be a false prophet. One thing he can be talking about is that which is understood in historical context in his use of the term: salvation by Jewish identity alone (attained by means of Jewish conversion). This &quot;false gospel&quot; he calls it, is just that. False. It&#039;s a belief in grace, but a false belief at that: that G-d had grace on someone to be born Jewish or allowed them to convert. An election of the Jewish people that is not dependent upon faith in Messiah. Notice that Paul can not be said to be against circumcision, for this is commanded in Torah of even Abraham, who wasn&#039;t a Jew. But certainly he can be against a false gospel.

A believer from the nations, when they convert to the teachings of Messiah Yeshua (the Torah) they are a convert to what? Christianity, which is a sect of Judaism. Thus all believers in Messiah Yeshua are converts to Judaism. Going through formal conversion is merely then an acknowledgment of an already existing reality for the benefit of the community to hold the individual accountable to the decision they have made. Some call it baptism. In Judaism it&#039;s called conversion.  Circumcision then for many, is merely an act of obedience to the command of G-d that all male offspring of Abraham are to be circumcised (and those bought from the nations in his house) - a reality that even Paul acknowledges is true of all believers: that they are the offspring of Abraham. To get circumcised then as a believer, when not done for purposes of securing a place in the World to Come, is done for the sake of (participating in and being held accountable by) the Jewish community (which is why Paul circumcised Timothy), and thus is an act of obedience to a command for someone who already is identified as one who claims Abraham as their father.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If &#8220;Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of G-d [is what matters]&#8221; (and this is true) and G-d himself commands circumcision (thus finding itself in the category of &#8220;the commandments of G-d&#8221; and thus &#8220;what matters&#8221; &#8211; then what is the &#8220;circumcision&#8221; that Paul is talking about that isn&#8217;t of &#8220;the commandments of G-d&#8221;? Do you know? Paul can&#8217;t be made to contradict the scriptures that came before him, or else he would be a false prophet. One thing he can be talking about is that which is understood in historical context in his use of the term: salvation by Jewish identity alone (attained by means of Jewish conversion). This &#8220;false gospel&#8221; he calls it, is just that. False. It&#8217;s a belief in grace, but a false belief at that: that G-d had grace on someone to be born Jewish or allowed them to convert. An election of the Jewish people that is not dependent upon faith in Messiah. Notice that Paul can not be said to be against circumcision, for this is commanded in Torah of even Abraham, who wasn&#8217;t a Jew. But certainly he can be against a false gospel.</p>
<p>A believer from the nations, when they convert to the teachings of Messiah Yeshua (the Torah) they are a convert to what? Christianity, which is a sect of Judaism. Thus all believers in Messiah Yeshua are converts to Judaism. Going through formal conversion is merely then an acknowledgment of an already existing reality for the benefit of the community to hold the individual accountable to the decision they have made. Some call it baptism. In Judaism it&#8217;s called conversion.  Circumcision then for many, is merely an act of obedience to the command of G-d that all male offspring of Abraham are to be circumcised (and those bought from the nations in his house) &#8211; a reality that even Paul acknowledges is true of all believers: that they are the offspring of Abraham. To get circumcised then as a believer, when not done for purposes of securing a place in the World to Come, is done for the sake of (participating in and being held accountable by) the Jewish community (which is why Paul circumcised Timothy), and thus is an act of obedience to a command for someone who already is identified as one who claims Abraham as their father.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/faqs/torah-for-gentiles/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 05:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=1122#comment-507</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Mike. This oft-repeated idea by The Jerusalem Council is not consistent with the NT writings, nor the Scriptures at large. Gentiles in Messiah Yeshua remain gentiles (Acts 15:17, Amos 9:12). The mystery is that the gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body (Ephesians 3:6), so how then are they Jews? Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the Commandment of G-d [is what matters] (1 Corinthians 7:19)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Mike. This oft-repeated idea by The Jerusalem Council is not consistent with the NT writings, nor the Scriptures at large. Gentiles in Messiah Yeshua remain gentiles (Acts 15:17, Amos 9:12). The mystery is that the gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body (Ephesians 3:6), so how then are they Jews? Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the Commandment of G-d [is what matters] (1 Corinthians 7:19)!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Israel Betzalel</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/faqs/torah-for-gentiles/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>Israel Betzalel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=1122#comment-354</guid>
		<description>A Gentile that comes to Torah, through faith in Messiah, ceases to be a pagan, and has become a part of Israel already. Therefore your argument is moot since conversion to Judaism is a confirmation of an already existing reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Gentile that comes to Torah, through faith in Messiah, ceases to be a pagan, and has become a part of Israel already. Therefore your argument is moot since conversion to Judaism is a confirmation of an already existing reality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/faqs/torah-for-gentiles/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=1122#comment-353</guid>
		<description>&quot;... then we should certainly offer them a speedy and sincere means to full conversion to Judaism so as to help them fulfill that desire...&quot;

I must whole-heartedly disagree with that assertion. If there was one thing the Jerusalem Council actually decreed, it was that a Gentile did not have to be circumcised in order to be saved. By &quot;circumcised,&quot; it is meant that a Gentile did not have to become Jewish (Jews are circumcised, hence they are called &quot;the circumcision&quot; in the Brit Chad.). Gentiles in no way have to become Jewish in order to accept the whole of Torah in their lives. Please read Isaiah 56. A foreigner or stranger who accepts G-d&#039;s mitzvot thus becomes a fellow-partaker of the covenant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; then we should certainly offer them a speedy and sincere means to full conversion to Judaism so as to help them fulfill that desire&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I must whole-heartedly disagree with that assertion. If there was one thing the Jerusalem Council actually decreed, it was that a Gentile did not have to be circumcised in order to be saved. By &#8220;circumcised,&#8221; it is meant that a Gentile did not have to become Jewish (Jews are circumcised, hence they are called &#8220;the circumcision&#8221; in the Brit Chad.). Gentiles in no way have to become Jewish in order to accept the whole of Torah in their lives. Please read Isaiah 56. A foreigner or stranger who accepts G-d&#8217;s mitzvot thus becomes a fellow-partaker of the covenant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff A</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/faqs/torah-for-gentiles/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=1122#comment-352</guid>
		<description>B&quot;H This is an excellent post, and I agree with it. I would like to share it with friends, if I may.  Todah and shalom!  Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8221;H This is an excellent post, and I agree with it. I would like to share it with friends, if I may.  Todah and shalom!  Jeff</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

