Comments on: Two House Theology is a Distraction http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/ A Global Association of Orthodox Jewish Believers in Messiah Yeshua Fri, 01 Jul 2011 03:30:37 +0000 hourly 1 By: Israel Betzalel http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-166 Israel Betzalel Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:25:07 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-166 Yes, I believe I have a place in the World to Come by the merit of Messiah Yeshua alone. And yes, we openly share the gospel with everyone, beginning in Gen 3:15. Actually it was one of the first articles posted on this site: http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/the-genesis-road/ We should repent the moment we are made aware of our sin by the Spirit of G-d (often when we read his Word). I find I am in need of repentance always, which is why I ask for forgiveness of HaShem every time I engage him in the daily prayers as the Master himself taught us to say "forgive us our sin, as we forgive those who sin against us." As demonstrated in the Tabernacle, we only actively ask for forgiveness when we go meet with HaShem, and not every waking moment of our lives. Just as one wasn't called to run to the Temple to make a sacrifice every time one became aware of their sin, so too we don't need to run to HaShem immediately to ask forgiveness too (however repentance is required for obedience the moment we are aware of our sin, and this often includes asking HaShem for forgiveness so that process can begin). People only needed to make a sacrifice when they went to the Tabernacle to meet with HaShem, but not every time they sinned. Since I meet with HaShem daily through prayer, it is during those times of prayer I ask for forgiveness, as the Master instructed "when you pray." It's a matter of courtesy and a sincerely repentant heart before the King when one enters into his Presence in prayer. Why demand or ask something of the King when we've insulted him with our disobedience? We should ask for forgiveness when we are before Him. Regarding Sabbath, if one even hesitates to consider whether or not to save a life on the Sabbath, then one has broken the Sabbath already since the entire day is about redemption. We are commanded to save a life on the Sabbath, and by doing so, one does not break Sabbath, even if it's help a donkey out of a pit, as Yeshua clearly pointed out. Yeshua commanded us to love G-d and others, especially as he himself did - and he did so by being perfect to the Torah! The Latter Writings of the Disciples of Yeshua are not optional when one is a follower of Messiah Yeshua. They do not contradict the Torah, nor do they teach others to forsake it. We are called to love G-d and others in accordance with His perfect standard in how to love G-d and others, not our own standard; and His standard is, and always will be, the Torah. It is by our obedience to HaShem that we share the gospel, as it is written "go (if translated into Hebrew, is "lech" from which we get "halach") therefore and make disciples." Halacha in Hebrew is the word for walking out Torah. It is as we are obedient to HaShem that we make disciples who too are obedient, for this is what a disciple does: he imitates the one he is a disciple of. As Paul said "imitate me as I imitate the Messiah." So then, Paul being a "Pharisee of Pharisee" and who said "I have done nothing against the traditions" is calling even those of the nations, to imitate Messiah as he imitates him. And how do we imitate Messiah? By walking (halacha, "going") in love, that is, the Torah, the perfect standard for love that never changes. Yes, I believe I have a place in the World to Come by the merit of Messiah Yeshua alone. And yes, we openly share the gospel with everyone, beginning in Gen 3:15. Actually it was one of the first articles posted on this site: http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/the-genesis-road/

We should repent the moment we are made aware of our sin by the Spirit of G-d (often when we read his Word). I find I am in need of repentance always, which is why I ask for forgiveness of HaShem every time I engage him in the daily prayers as the Master himself taught us to say “forgive us our sin, as we forgive those who sin against us.” As demonstrated in the Tabernacle, we only actively ask for forgiveness when we go meet with HaShem, and not every waking moment of our lives. Just as one wasn’t called to run to the Temple to make a sacrifice every time one became aware of their sin, so too we don’t need to run to HaShem immediately to ask forgiveness too (however repentance is required for obedience the moment we are aware of our sin, and this often includes asking HaShem for forgiveness so that process can begin). People only needed to make a sacrifice when they went to the Tabernacle to meet with HaShem, but not every time they sinned. Since I meet with HaShem daily through prayer, it is during those times of prayer I ask for forgiveness, as the Master instructed “when you pray.” It’s a matter of courtesy and a sincerely repentant heart before the King when one enters into his Presence in prayer. Why demand or ask something of the King when we’ve insulted him with our disobedience? We should ask for forgiveness when we are before Him.

Regarding Sabbath, if one even hesitates to consider whether or not to save a life on the Sabbath, then one has broken the Sabbath already since the entire day is about redemption. We are commanded to save a life on the Sabbath, and by doing so, one does not break Sabbath, even if it’s help a donkey out of a pit, as Yeshua clearly pointed out. Yeshua commanded us to love G-d and others, especially as he himself did – and he did so by being perfect to the Torah!

The Latter Writings of the Disciples of Yeshua are not optional when one is a follower of Messiah Yeshua. They do not contradict the Torah, nor do they teach others to forsake it. We are called to love G-d and others in accordance with His perfect standard in how to love G-d and others, not our own standard; and His standard is, and always will be, the Torah.

It is by our obedience to HaShem that we share the gospel, as it is written “go (if translated into Hebrew, is “lech” from which we get “halach”) therefore and make disciples.” Halacha in Hebrew is the word for walking out Torah. It is as we are obedient to HaShem that we make disciples who too are obedient, for this is what a disciple does: he imitates the one he is a disciple of. As Paul said “imitate me as I imitate the Messiah.” So then, Paul being a “Pharisee of Pharisee” and who said “I have done nothing against the traditions” is calling even those of the nations, to imitate Messiah as he imitates him. And how do we imitate Messiah? By walking (halacha, “going”) in love, that is, the Torah, the perfect standard for love that never changes.

]]> By: Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-165 Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:46:24 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-165 Yes i see you are about promoting your own self interest which has little or nothing to do with G-d or Yeshua or the Torah You are saved already right? I would challenge you to ask yourself honestly how many times,even in one day you find that you are in need of repentence,for thoughts alone,that would indeed displease G-d...What about keeping the Sabbath,are there not times when you do not keep it? Would you freeze to death rather than kiddle a fire if need be? Would you allow a love one to remain inside of your home if they are in need of medical care? So then good luck with keeping the Sabbath...Funny (strange)how Yeshua the Daver of Hashem never tells us to keep it...Oh yea,i forgot the New Testament is optional for you...You keep the things that you like and cast away the rest...Nice Israel! Do as you wish...Keep Torah then...I care not for what you practice,i did not come here to change your mind...However,i will share the Gospel...At least those idolatrous Trinitarians and Zionist do attempt even in their folly,to lead others to Yeshua... So can i do better with out the 1+1+1 does not really equal three god's theory? Yes i can! Yes i was a Trinitarian once,so surley i know that they are not better than you,Israel...They are not better than you!!! Do not bother to answer,i have nothing more to say,until you change your mind about openly sharing the Gospel with everyone,starting with the people of the State of Israel!!! Thank you for your time. Take care and goodbye,Israel (only for now i pray) Delores Yes i see you are about promoting your own self interest which has little or nothing to do with G-d or Yeshua or the Torah You are saved already right?

I would challenge you to ask yourself honestly how many times,even in one day you find that you are in need of repentence,for thoughts alone,that would indeed displease G-d…What about keeping the Sabbath,are there not times when you do not keep it? Would you freeze to death rather than kiddle a fire if need be? Would you allow a love one to remain inside of your home if they are in need of medical care? So then good luck with keeping the Sabbath…Funny (strange)how Yeshua the Daver of Hashem never tells us to keep it…Oh yea,i forgot the New Testament is optional for you…You keep the things that you like and cast away the rest…Nice Israel!

Do as you wish…Keep Torah then…I care not for what you practice,i did not come here to change your mind…However,i will share the Gospel…At least those idolatrous Trinitarians and Zionist do attempt even in their folly,to lead others to Yeshua…

So can i do better with out the 1+1+1 does not really equal three god’s theory? Yes i can! Yes i was a Trinitarian once,so surley i know that they are not better than you,Israel…They are not better than you!!!

Do not bother to answer,i have nothing more to say,until you change your mind about openly sharing the Gospel with everyone,starting with the people of the State of Israel!!! Thank you for your time.

Take care and goodbye,Israel (only for now i pray)

Delores

]]> By: Israel Betzalel http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-164 Israel Betzalel Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:51:44 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-164 One's obedience to HaShem never jeopardizes their salvation. Ever. One is obedient to HaShem because they are saved. If you are concerned about breaking one law (because then you break them all), ask yourself, have you ever broken the laws to "love the LORD your G-d" and "love your neighbor as yourself" at any point in your life? Of course. We are all sinners. Yet because we fear "breaking them all" does that mean we aren't to "love the LORD your G-d?" In Messiah, we are not condemned for our imperfection. Because of this, we can keep Torah without fear of condemnation. We can truly be obedient to HaShem as we can do all these things through "Messiah who strengthens us." You are not "under the law" when you have Messiah. After you become "saved," the Torah continues in it function to "teach, rebuke, correct and train in righteousness, so that the man of G-d may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Tim 3:14-17). As disciples of Messiah, are we called to live a life of disobedience? No. Our reward will be very small if we do. Instead, we submit to HaShem and walk in his ways, because we love Him, and already have eternal life through Messiah. G-d's perfect standard in how to love G-d and one's neighbor, is the Torah. We do ourselves, G-d, and others, a great disservice when we think somehow that standard (that standard which condemned us as sinners) has somehow changed the moment we became believers, and that it is "ok" to be disobedient to it - that it's ok to lust (love selfishly) after what we want, and not what G-d desires. I hope I have not come across as puffing myself up. My desire is to love you as HaShem clearly instructs me to do in the Torah, as I hope you would too. I just encourage others to love others and G-d as He himself instructs in the Torah, and not by our own arbitrary human standards. G-d's ways are not our ways. I pray all those who read these articles are inspired to walk closer with HaShem than ever before, in accordance with the truth of the Torah, and not with the falsehood of our imaginations and comfort zones. I have not studied Daniel 9. My focus is on Torah, Messiah, and being obedient to HaShem. The future will happen regardless of what I know about, and I want to be ready to meet HaShem and hear him say "well done good and faithful servant." One’s obedience to HaShem never jeopardizes their salvation. Ever. One is obedient to HaShem because they are saved. If you are concerned about breaking one law (because then you break them all), ask yourself, have you ever broken the laws to “love the LORD your G-d” and “love your neighbor as yourself” at any point in your life? Of course. We are all sinners. Yet because we fear “breaking them all” does that mean we aren’t to “love the LORD your G-d?” In Messiah, we are not condemned for our imperfection. Because of this, we can keep Torah without fear of condemnation. We can truly be obedient to HaShem as we can do all these things through “Messiah who strengthens us.” You are not “under the law” when you have Messiah. After you become “saved,” the Torah continues in it function to “teach, rebuke, correct and train in righteousness, so that the man of G-d may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim 3:14-17). As disciples of Messiah, are we called to live a life of disobedience? No. Our reward will be very small if we do. Instead, we submit to HaShem and walk in his ways, because we love Him, and already have eternal life through Messiah. G-d’s perfect standard in how to love G-d and one’s neighbor, is the Torah. We do ourselves, G-d, and others, a great disservice when we think somehow that standard (that standard which condemned us as sinners) has somehow changed the moment we became believers, and that it is “ok” to be disobedient to it – that it’s ok to lust (love selfishly) after what we want, and not what G-d desires.

I hope I have not come across as puffing myself up. My desire is to love you as HaShem clearly instructs me to do in the Torah, as I hope you would too. I just encourage others to love others and G-d as He himself instructs in the Torah, and not by our own arbitrary human standards. G-d’s ways are not our ways. I pray all those who read these articles are inspired to walk closer with HaShem than ever before, in accordance with the truth of the Torah, and not with the falsehood of our imaginations and comfort zones.

I have not studied Daniel 9. My focus is on Torah, Messiah, and being obedient to HaShem. The future will happen regardless of what I know about, and I want to be ready to meet HaShem and hear him say “well done good and faithful servant.”

]]> By: Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-163 Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:14:14 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-163 Israel i do not wish to be placed under the law of Moses...For when i break even one law,i will be guilty of breaking the whole...What then? Will i then turn again to Grace? And say that Yeshua has kept Torah (law) for me anyway...Is this not hypocrisy? I would i not just receive grace and forgiveness instead? My whole point is this...Unlike many others who call themselves Christians,i know who the church is...And by reading the first book of scripture,Genesis...This is what i wanted to demonstrate to you... So i do not agree with what you have said here at all...So while we sit around "puffing" ourselves up,everyday minute of every day,thousands of people all over the world are dying in their sins,because they are yet without Yeshua as their savior...I know what the great commission is to,i does not mean to sit around on our Arses and waiting for people to come to you...It is about sharing the Gospel with every one! Also at this very hour,are those who called themselves "Christian Zionist" whom i believe will do anything to be the first to enter the Kingdom of G-d with Yeshua. Thinking that they Usurp those to whom he was sent to first,Israel... This includes encouraging the USA and or Israel to start a war with Iran or even worse,All Arab and Muslim Nations would be involved... So who will protect the church and those who do not believe yet from these Zionist? They wish to bring Armageddon Israel,dont you care!!! Yes i am probably off topic again so delete it...But see the video before you do... Unless you are committed as i am to do something about this then,i have nothing further...I know what the scriptures teach Israel,truly i do...This is perhaps why no one will ever answer the question concerning Daniel 9:27,then they would have to admit that the New Covenant is indeed in forced,seeing as we have the death and the resurrection of the one who confirmed it,who is also its testator...Hebrews 7:44 9;17,18.. Just so you know the answer to Daniel 9;27 is most clear to me in the Jewish Orthodox bible,so thank you,i downloaded it as well as ordered it...Did you know that Christians the Zionism stands by the misrepresentation of this passage,as being some anti-christ who will persecute Israel? When it is likely that they themselves,the soon to become apostates, of the church will in fact do it themselves and to the whole church!!! http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/war-and-eschatology-christian-zionists-and-the-new-israeli-government/ Shalom Israel... Israel i do not wish to be placed under the law of Moses…For when i break even one law,i will be guilty of breaking the whole…What then? Will i then turn again to Grace? And say that Yeshua has kept Torah (law) for me anyway…Is this not hypocrisy? I would i not just receive grace and forgiveness instead?

My whole point is this…Unlike many others who call themselves Christians,i know who the church is…And by reading the first book of scripture,Genesis…This is what i wanted to demonstrate to you…

So i do not agree with what you have said here at all…So while we sit around “puffing” ourselves up,everyday minute of every day,thousands of people all over the world are dying in their sins,because they are yet without Yeshua as their savior…I know what the great commission is to,i does not mean to sit around on our Arses and waiting for people to come to you…It is about sharing the Gospel with every one!

Also at this very hour,are those who called themselves “Christian Zionist” whom i believe will do anything to be the first to enter the Kingdom of G-d with Yeshua. Thinking that they Usurp those to whom he was sent to first,Israel… This includes encouraging the USA and or Israel to start a war with Iran or even worse,All Arab and Muslim Nations would be involved… So who will protect the church and those who do not believe yet from these Zionist? They wish to bring Armageddon Israel,dont you care!!!

Yes i am probably off topic again so delete it…But see the video before you do…

Unless you are committed as i am to do something about this then,i have nothing further…I know what the scriptures teach Israel,truly i do…This is perhaps why no one will ever answer the question concerning Daniel 9:27,then they would have to admit that the New Covenant is indeed in forced,seeing as we have the death and the resurrection of the one who confirmed it,who is also its testator…Hebrews 7:44 9;17,18..

Just so you know the answer to Daniel 9;27 is most clear to me in the Jewish Orthodox bible,so thank you,i downloaded it as well as ordered it…Did you know that Christians the Zionism stands by the misrepresentation of this passage,as being some anti-christ who will persecute Israel? When it is likely that they themselves,the soon to become apostates, of the church will in fact do it themselves and to the whole church!!!

http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/war-and-eschatology-christian-zionists-and-the-new-israeli-government/

Shalom Israel…

]]> By: Israel Betzalel http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-162 Israel Betzalel Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:20:58 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-162 If one refuses to observe Sabbath and the Festivals, by definition, one is not loving G-d, since "all the Torah" hangs from "love the LORD your G-d" which means not a single commandment exist that is outside the category of loving G-d. This means Sabbath and Festivals are acts of love of G-d. Why would anyone who claims to love G-d <em>not</em> do them? When you became a convert, to follow Messiah as King and Savior, you converted to Judaism. Like most Christians, you even went through a mikveh of conversion, so why do you still call yourself a gentile? You are a convert to Judaism. If you have committed to Torah, made repentance to Torah, believe Yeshua is the Messiah, and have gone through an immersion in water for conversion, then according to even orthodox standards, you are a Jew with a new heritage. Abraham, Issac, and Jacob become your fathers, and Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel and Leah, become your mothers, as it says in Deut 29 - the Covenant is made with everyone, and everyone who keeps it is reckoned as Abraham's offspring. If one refuses to observe Sabbath and the Festivals, by definition, one is not loving G-d, since “all the Torah” hangs from “love the LORD your G-d” which means not a single commandment exist that is outside the category of loving G-d. This means Sabbath and Festivals are acts of love of G-d. Why would anyone who claims to love G-d not do them? When you became a convert, to follow Messiah as King and Savior, you converted to Judaism. Like most Christians, you even went through a mikveh of conversion, so why do you still call yourself a gentile? You are a convert to Judaism. If you have committed to Torah, made repentance to Torah, believe Yeshua is the Messiah, and have gone through an immersion in water for conversion, then according to even orthodox standards, you are a Jew with a new heritage. Abraham, Issac, and Jacob become your fathers, and Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel and Leah, become your mothers, as it says in Deut 29 – the Covenant is made with everyone, and everyone who keeps it is reckoned as Abraham’s offspring.

]]> By: Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-161 Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:56:08 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-161 Sorry Israel,i have a Correction to make (Exodus 20:3,23) Sorry Israel,i have a Correction to make (Exodus 20:3,23)

]]> By: Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-160 Yeshua the Lord of Glory/Dee Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:12:46 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-160 Hello Israel I just found this page today.I must say that i find it very interesting what you have written here. I do have a question tho.If one wishes not to convert to Messianic Judaism,yet they are convinced that "Christians" who try to convert Jews or Israelis to Trinitarianism,or better said to idolatry are wrong. I find lately that i do not like the word Christian,at least not for myself anymore.Although i do see that it is used in the New Testament at least three times...So i have taken on the name "Economists".Which is really not a name,but is what i believe in. "The Unus Deus" Since visiting your site i have even a better understanding of the Davar of Hashem (The Word of the Lord)... So my question is this,according to the Davar of Hashem...The greatest commandments are to Love G-d and your neighbor..Matthew 23:36-40...So then if i choose not to keep the Sabbath,or even the Passover,but do conform to Genesis 35:2 Exodus 20:2,33,Leviticus 17:11-13 and their New Testament counterpart or passages,Acts 15:19,20 and 21:25... Then Israel,our we not of the same house? And based on the fact that i too like the children of Japheth (the Gentiles)dwell in the "tent" of Shem,the father of all the children of Heber,(Jews and and Israelis)and dwell through the same faith in Yeshua the Messiah (Christ)as you... My ancestors are of the children of Ham,whom G-d blessed along with his brothers in Genesis 9:1.So Like Shem,Ham and Japheth are we not brothers?(tho i am a woman) Israel you are free,so please respond in that manner,i would really like to know what you think and believe. Dee/Delores Hello Israel

I just found this page today.I must say that i find it very interesting what you have written here.

I do have a question tho.If one wishes not to convert to Messianic Judaism,yet they are convinced that “Christians” who try to convert Jews or Israelis to Trinitarianism,or better said to idolatry are wrong.

I find lately that i do not like the word Christian,at least not for myself anymore.Although i do see that it is used in the New Testament at least three times…So i have taken on the name “Economists”.Which is really not a name,but is what i believe in. “The Unus Deus”

Since visiting your site i have even a better understanding of the Davar of Hashem (The Word of the Lord)…

So my question is this,according to the Davar of Hashem…The greatest commandments are to Love G-d and your neighbor..Matthew 23:36-40…So then if i choose not to keep the Sabbath,or even the Passover,but do conform to Genesis 35:2 Exodus 20:2,33,Leviticus 17:11-13 and their New Testament counterpart or passages,Acts 15:19,20 and 21:25…

Then Israel,our we not of the same house? And based on the fact that i too like the children of Japheth (the Gentiles)dwell in the “tent” of Shem,the father of all the children of Heber,(Jews and and Israelis)and dwell through the same faith in Yeshua the Messiah (Christ)as you…

My ancestors are of the children of Ham,whom G-d blessed along with his brothers in Genesis 9:1.So Like Shem,Ham and Japheth are we not brothers?(tho i am a woman)

Israel you are free,so please respond in that manner,i would really like to know what you think and believe.

Dee/Delores

]]> By: Israel Betzalel http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-159 Israel Betzalel Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:08:30 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-159 If one uses such to promote obedience to Torah based off of "Israel and Judah" alone, yes, such usage of those terms to promote such would be a distraction from the real reason why people are led to Torah through Messiah. If one doesn't believe one should even be Torah observant, whether one is of Israel or not, then one has a bigger issues to deal with than a spat over two house theology since one's plain and simple obedience, and thus one's loyalty to the King is then questioned. If one uses such to promote obedience to Torah based off of “Israel and Judah” alone, yes, such usage of those terms to promote such would be a distraction from the real reason why people are led to Torah through Messiah. If one doesn’t believe one should even be Torah observant, whether one is of Israel or not, then one has a bigger issues to deal with than a spat over two house theology since one’s plain and simple obedience, and thus one’s loyalty to the King is then questioned.

]]> By: Hanok http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-158 Hanok Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:00:12 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-158 So when the Scriptures refers to "Israel and Judah" together approximately 200 times, is that too a "Distraction"? So when the Scriptures refers to “Israel and Judah” together approximately 200 times, is that too a “Distraction”?

]]> By: Israel Betzalel http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/two-house-theology-is-a-distraction/#comment-157 Israel Betzalel Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:39:52 +0000 http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=66#comment-157 Absolutely. Absolutely.

]]>