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	<title>Comments on: The Gospel in the Torah &#8211; The Genesis Road</title>
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	<description>A Global Association of Orthodox Jewish Believers in Messiah Yeshua</description>
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		<title>By: Genuine Faith &#171; Calvary Christian Fellowship (Kingwood, Texas)</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/the-genesis-road/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Genuine Faith &#171; Calvary Christian Fellowship (Kingwood, Texas)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] The first three chapter of Genesis gives the blue [...] </description>
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		<title>By: Genuine Faith &#171; Calvary Christian Fellowship (Kingwood, Texas)</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/the-genesis-road/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Genuine Faith &#171; Calvary Christian Fellowship (Kingwood, Texas)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] The first three chapter of Genesis gives the blue [...] </description>
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		<title>By: Israel</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/the-genesis-road/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
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&lt;blockquote&gt;Email continued above:
&lt;em&gt;The passages cited in my last post indicate that &quot;being fruitful&quot; relates to bearing children and &quot;multiplying&quot; relates to accruing descendents. In none of the passages do we find any reference to obedience or making disciples. In order to reach such a conclusion, one must grasp for an extra-Biblical interpretation.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;


I am not saying that that is not what that means. It has a small bit to do with procreation, but that is not it&#039;s focus. I am simply saying that the Torah teaches that there is more being talked about here, and we do ourselves a disservice if we do not inquire further into the matter.

If you want to see our in-depth study, please check out:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7515114/Old-and-New-Covenants-A-Messianic-Jews-Torah-101-Primer

Why does the Torah mention our food is that with fruit with the seed in it? Isn&#039;t the Torah building up to Gen 3:15, the prophecy of the promised Seed, the Messiah? So then the Torah teaches us that our fruit, which we are commanded to eat only, is the fruit of our obedience to the promised Seed, the Messiah.



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;In fact, obedience is entirely unrelated to the immediate context of the passages cited in my last post in this thread.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;


On the contrary. The first mention of fruit, is that with seed (zarah) in it. The Torah crescendos to the prophecy of the zarah of the woman - the seed of the woman, the Messiah, teaching us on a peshat level, that the &quot;be fruitful&quot; command G-d gives to Adam and Eve is directly related to the zarah of the woman, the Messiah, both procreatively, missionary, and monarchy.

We also know that fruits of obedience is intended because Adam and Eve are put in the Garden to serve (asah) and guard (shamar) &quot;it.&quot; Funny thing is, &quot;garden&quot; in hebrew is masculine, and &quot;serve&quot; and &quot;guard&quot; are feminine, and according to Hebrew grammar you can&#039;t match feminine adjectives to masculine nouns, meaning that the &quot;it&quot; they are to &quot;serve&quot; and &quot;guard&quot; refers not to the &quot;garden.&quot; The implication is that they are to serve and guard the zarah, or for practical purposes, the Torah - which both are feminine nouns. And we find this understanding as one accepted by the Aramaic commentary of the Torah, known as the Targumim, which existed in Yeshua&#039;s day that clearly says:

Gen 2:15 Targum Pseudo-Jonathan
And the Lord G-d took the man from the mountain of worship, where he had been created, and made him dwell in the garden of Eden, &lt;strong&gt;to do service in the Torah, and to keep its commandments&lt;/strong&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;You&#039;re connecting the great commission with passages relating to populating the earth. You can assume a connection if you are so inclined, but there is nothing in Scripture to confirm that there is such a connection.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Then please show us how Messiah Yeshua can command us the Great Commission, from other passages of the Torah, or else by your assertion, he would be a false prophet if such a command was not in the Torah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Email continued above:<br />
<em>The passages cited in my last post indicate that &#8220;being fruitful&#8221; relates to bearing children and &#8220;multiplying&#8221; relates to accruing descendents. In none of the passages do we find any reference to obedience or making disciples. In order to reach such a conclusion, one must grasp for an extra-Biblical interpretation.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>I am not saying that that is not what that means. It has a small bit to do with procreation, but that is not it&#8217;s focus. I am simply saying that the Torah teaches that there is more being talked about here, and we do ourselves a disservice if we do not inquire further into the matter.</p>
<p>If you want to see our in-depth study, please check out:<br />
<a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/7515114/Old-and-New-Covenants-A-Messianic-Jews-Torah-101-Primer" rel="nofollow">http://www.scribd.com/doc/7515114/Old-and-New-Covenants-A-Messianic-Jews-Torah-101-Primer</a></p>
<p>Why does the Torah mention our food is that with fruit with the seed in it? Isn&#8217;t the Torah building up to Gen 3:15, the prophecy of the promised Seed, the Messiah? So then the Torah teaches us that our fruit, which we are commanded to eat only, is the fruit of our obedience to the promised Seed, the Messiah.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>In fact, obedience is entirely unrelated to the immediate context of the passages cited in my last post in this thread.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>On the contrary. The first mention of fruit, is that with seed (zarah) in it. The Torah crescendos to the prophecy of the zarah of the woman &#8211; the seed of the woman, the Messiah, teaching us on a peshat level, that the &#8220;be fruitful&#8221; command G-d gives to Adam and Eve is directly related to the zarah of the woman, the Messiah, both procreatively, missionary, and monarchy.</p>
<p>We also know that fruits of obedience is intended because Adam and Eve are put in the Garden to serve (asah) and guard (shamar) &#8220;it.&#8221; Funny thing is, &#8220;garden&#8221; in hebrew is masculine, and &#8220;serve&#8221; and &#8220;guard&#8221; are feminine, and according to Hebrew grammar you can&#8217;t match feminine adjectives to masculine nouns, meaning that the &#8220;it&#8221; they are to &#8220;serve&#8221; and &#8220;guard&#8221; refers not to the &#8220;garden.&#8221; The implication is that they are to serve and guard the zarah, or for practical purposes, the Torah &#8211; which both are feminine nouns. And we find this understanding as one accepted by the Aramaic commentary of the Torah, known as the Targumim, which existed in Yeshua&#8217;s day that clearly says:</p>
<p>Gen 2:15 Targum Pseudo-Jonathan<br />
And the Lord G-d took the man from the mountain of worship, where he had been created, and made him dwell in the garden of Eden, <strong>to do service in the Torah, and to keep its commandments</strong>.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>You&#8217;re connecting the great commission with passages relating to populating the earth. You can assume a connection if you are so inclined, but there is nothing in Scripture to confirm that there is such a connection.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Then please show us how Messiah Yeshua can command us the Great Commission, from other passages of the Torah, or else by your assertion, he would be a false prophet if such a command was not in the Torah.</p>
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		<title>By: Israel</title>
		<link>http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/apologetics/the-genesis-road/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jerusalemcouncil.org/?p=88#comment-192</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Email from a reader:
&lt;em&gt;* G-d commanded us eternal life, and blessed us with it. Gen 1:28
    * He then told us to be fruitful - to have fruits of obedience to his commandment. Gen 1:28
    * He then told us to multiply - to make disciples of his commandment. Gen 1:28
    * He then told us to fill the earth - to immerse the earth in the fullness of the Messiah. Gen 1:28
    * He then told us to subdue it - to teach all mankind the Torah. Gen 1:28


What is the source of such assumptions? Genesis 1:28 says nothing about law. In fact, the context suggests procreation, not law keeping.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Be fruitful, and multiply are two separate commandments.

Being fruitful relates to having the fruit of the Spirit, which comes by obedience to the Torah. As Targum Pseudo-Jonathan states, they (Adam and Eve) were put in the garden to serve and guard the Torah. The concept is a very Jewish one. We also know that we were to eat fruit with seed in it - our food was to remind us of the Messiah, and by reverse implication, our obedience to him is described as our fruit. And since it is the Messiah who remains perfectly obedient to the Torah for our merit to eternal life in accordance with the Torah, even though we fell into sin, then our obedience to him as King implies we do what the King commands, which is the Torah.

Multiply does relate to having babies, yes, but it also implies much more: they were to make disciples, as the Torah says &quot;teach them (these words) to your children.&quot; To believe that G-d only wanted them to have babies is really coming from a pagan sex-god mentality. We also know that making disciples is intended because our &quot;children&quot; are our disciples - and this too is a Jewish concept (which is why John calls his students his &quot;children&quot;). Also, as disciples of Messiah, we are counted as children of Abraham. And in context, the &quot;seed of the Woman&quot; can also be the elect of G-d - meaning that scripture counts those of Messiah as the &quot;seed of the woman&quot; - a concept that finds its way in several places of scripture, most notably in Revelation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Email from a reader:<br />
<em>* G-d commanded us eternal life, and blessed us with it. Gen 1:28<br />
    * He then told us to be fruitful &#8211; to have fruits of obedience to his commandment. Gen 1:28<br />
    * He then told us to multiply &#8211; to make disciples of his commandment. Gen 1:28<br />
    * He then told us to fill the earth &#8211; to immerse the earth in the fullness of the Messiah. Gen 1:28<br />
    * He then told us to subdue it &#8211; to teach all mankind the Torah. Gen 1:28</p>
<p>What is the source of such assumptions? Genesis 1:28 says nothing about law. In fact, the context suggests procreation, not law keeping.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Be fruitful, and multiply are two separate commandments.</p>
<p>Being fruitful relates to having the fruit of the Spirit, which comes by obedience to the Torah. As Targum Pseudo-Jonathan states, they (Adam and Eve) were put in the garden to serve and guard the Torah. The concept is a very Jewish one. We also know that we were to eat fruit with seed in it &#8211; our food was to remind us of the Messiah, and by reverse implication, our obedience to him is described as our fruit. And since it is the Messiah who remains perfectly obedient to the Torah for our merit to eternal life in accordance with the Torah, even though we fell into sin, then our obedience to him as King implies we do what the King commands, which is the Torah.</p>
<p>Multiply does relate to having babies, yes, but it also implies much more: they were to make disciples, as the Torah says &#8220;teach them (these words) to your children.&#8221; To believe that G-d only wanted them to have babies is really coming from a pagan sex-god mentality. We also know that making disciples is intended because our &#8220;children&#8221; are our disciples &#8211; and this too is a Jewish concept (which is why John calls his students his &#8220;children&#8221;). Also, as disciples of Messiah, we are counted as children of Abraham. And in context, the &#8220;seed of the Woman&#8221; can also be the elect of G-d &#8211; meaning that scripture counts those of Messiah as the &#8220;seed of the woman&#8221; &#8211; a concept that finds its way in several places of scripture, most notably in Revelation.</p>
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